Crina and Kirsten

29. Who are you in a crisis? Choosing kindness in the midst of Covid-19

Covid-19 SUCKS! What are you going to do about it?


Like all of you, Crina and Kirsten are adjusting to life during a pandemic. There is so much uncertainty about the disease, fear about the economy, and confusion about what we should and should not do to protect ourselves and our community. There is also the very real fact that many people are losing their jobs and their livelihoods.  

Join us for this special edition, off-the-cuff episode of our podcast to hear what we’re thinking, how we’re coping and what we’re suggesting for workers, employers and business owners.   

We also offer you ways to express kindness, generosity and abundance during these difficult times. 

28. Love and Money–Is That Big Pay Check Impacting Your Relationship?

Money makes the world go round, but it might not make you happy. In fact women who make more money than their partner report that they are less satisfied with their lives and their marriage. Crina and Kirsten ask, “How can this be true? And how can we start to change the narrative about female breadwinners?” 


Who doesn’t like making a good salary?  But what happens when you make more money than your partner?  A listener encouraged us to consider this topic and her suggestion is our next episode,  On Crina and Kirsten Get to Work, our lively ladies discuss the different aspects of making more money than your partner.

Let’s not deny it, it is great to make money – there are very few downsides to doing so.  However, it may present complications when you make more money than your partner, particularly when your partner is a male.  

In 1960, women were the primary breadwinner in 6% of American households, that number is up to 25% today – so we know this topic affects a lot of women – and while that is good news, it is also, as we said, complicated.

What is interesting about the demographics on this issue is that younger women are less likely to make more than their male partners.  Women in the 50s and 60s are actually more likely to make more than their dudes. Race and ethnicity also affect these numbers. So, we know that the same factors that affect women’s compensation in general also affect whether women make more money than their beloveds.

The data shows that most men still think it is better when women do not work outside the home and when a woman makes 40% of the household income, male partners start to get nervous.  When women make more, both men and women report lower marital happiness than couples where the men make more.

Crina and Kirsten have lots of experience with this.  Crina has made more money, made less money, worked more and worked less than her spouse.  Kirsten has been the earner, a single mom and has also made less than her spouse. So with all the bases covered, these gals get to the reality of wrestling with these issues.

And find all the interesting information below:

7 Women Who Make More Money Than Their Men Sound Off.

When Women Earn More Than Men

When Wives Earn More Than Husbands, Neither Partner Likes to Admit It

Men’s stress jumps if their wives earn more than 40% of household income

The Happiness Penalty for Breadwinning Moms

Breadwinning Mothers Continue To Be the US Norm

Women Breadwinners Household Income Family Impact Study

27. Confessions of a 9-to-5 Racist

While many people see racism as intentional and overt, it is actually woven into the fabric of our daily lives. Well-meaning people perpetuate systems, policies and structures that are designed to benefit white people and discriminate against people of color. Check out this episode to hear how Crina and Kirsten have confronted their own racism and the racist systems that they are a part of.


Our co-hosts are tackling a big, ugly problem – maybe the biggest – racism in the workplace.  Before you listen – trust their intentions. This is an important topic and they are pushing themselves to talk about it – and making themselves more vulnerable than usual.  They do not have all of the answers and probably get lots wrong, but it would be way worse to not talk about it. So hold tight and bear with our gals.

This show is for people who acknowledge that racism exists – our dynamic duo is not out to convince anyone about anything, but just to get us all thinking about these issues.

Crina starts with a discussion of the nomenclature of racism – institutional, system and structural racism.  It helps to define what we are talking about so we can better understand it. Just like men sometimes do not recognize the patriarchy, white people sometimes do not recognize white privilege.  

Kirsten digs into the data about race and jobs and advancement in the workplace – as she loves to do.

Crina shares stories from her executive director days that are candid and revealing as to how this really happens and plays itself out in the workplace.

Crina and Kirsten hope you leave the show with more awareness and curiosity and less defensiveness – and that it leads to less suffering from racism and enjoying the riches of diversity.

And please ding in deeper with the following links . . . there is so much!

Views on Race in America 2019 | Pew Research Center

Being Black at a White WorkplaceStatus and Trends in the Education of Racial and Ethnic Groups 2018

What Is White Privilege? Here Are 9 Everyday Examples

January 28, 2009

The Urgency of Intersectionality

17 Deplorable Examples Of White Privilege

What I Said When My White Friend Asked for My Black Opinion on White Privilege

Why Aren’t Black Employees Getting More White-Collar Jobs?

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26. Sex, Adultery and Romance at Work

Statistics show that the majority of workers have been in a romantic relationship at work, but it’s not all rainbows and unicorns out there. While some of these relationships end in marriage, most of them fail. Even more disrupting are the surprising number of adulterous relationships at work! With all this love, sex, drama and secrecy…how does anyone get their work done?


What better way to celebrate Valentine’s Day – or really any day – than a bit of time with Crina and Kirsten and an episode of Crina and Kirsten Get to Work on romance in the workplace.  We know relationships at work are important to our satisfaction in our workplaces. And the data indicates that many of us meet our special someone at work. While all that is fantastic, too much of a good thing can be complicated (and even uncomfortable) for everyone – including co-workers.

This episode is for those in workplace romances and for those who work with those in workplace romances – which is apparently almost all of us.  A romantic relationship can be fodder for gossip and distraction in the workplace. It can be stressful and difficult to be in a romantic relationship that co-workers do not know about.  Secrets are hard – and of course if you are a co-worker who knows a secret – secrets can be even harder. Given that 1 in 6 romantic relationships at work is adulterous, we suspect this happens more than we think or want – particularly for those concerned with their productivity at work and of course, the business bottom line.  And, of course, it can be complicated to supervise employees in romantic relationships. And then there is the tragic break up . . .

Crina and Kirsten talk about the different kinds of romantic relationships, the difficulties and benefits that can arise, how the workplace is impacted and some strategies for these difficulties and impacts.

And, as always, we encourage you to explore this topic more deeply with the following links – how can you resist?

Why Relationships in the Workplace Matter | Blog

8 Workplace Romance Statistics You Need to Know Right Now

Professionally Pursuing Workplace Romance: What Organizations Should Teach Employees

The Truth About Office Romance

Tips for Dealing With Romantic Relationships in the Workplace

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25. Name It and Claim It-Climbing Your Ladder of Personal Success

Regardless of where you are in your career, you need to get clear on where you’re going and how you’re going to get there. Set your sights high, surround yourself with allies and supporters, and go get what you want!


In this episode of Crina and Kirsten Get to Work, our hosts talk about moving your self into the work life you want – whether you call it climbing the ladder, running a ropes course with team members or just creating your own vision for what you want your experience to be – this episode addresses how to get clear about where you are going and how to get there.  

However you think of advancing yourself, remember that it’s a journey and one on which folks spend a lot of time and energy, so it better be a great journey.

Crina works her magic on goal creation by reminding listeners to:

  1. Be realistic. As yourself, “Do I really want it?” and “What about it do you want?” 
  2. Get clarity. A goal must be specific, clear and measurable.
  3. Challenge yourself. An easy or tedious goal is demotivating. But keep a realistic balance: don’t expect to climb to the top overnight
  4. Remain Committed. You need to buy into the goal at the outset. Write it down! Post it somewhere! Believe in it (and yourself). 
  5. Determine how you’ll get feedback and how you’ll measure progress. Figure out what you’re going to use as feedback. What are the road signs that will tell you if you’re on track or not? For instance, if your goal is to get a promotion or advance in your field, you might choose benchmarks such as: getting more responsibility; being given a new project; seeing doors open up for you; gaining the trust of your supervisor.  This helps to keep the goal on track.
  6. Revisit your goals regularly and adjust as needed

Kirsten, with help from Crina, focuses on how to get there and how to deal with the frustrating reality of the percentage of women who advance in the workplace.  This is referred to as getting over the broken rung on women’s advancement in the workplace.

Our hosts talk about what actually works and what does not.  Forget the BS advice about playing golf, dressing for success, be funny/don’t be funny, make cookies and on and on.  Instead, find people and groups to support your ascent to where you want to be, such as taking actions that showcase what you are good at, say yes to things that move you towards your goal and of course ask for what you want – see episode 10.

And as always – below are some good resources for further thinking on this.

The CEO’s Secret To Moving Up the Corporate Career Ladder

Ladder Down: Climbing to the Top | 2018 Women in Law Issue

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24. Self Confidence–It’s Time to Own it, Sister!

Women tend to avoid owning our awesomeness because the patriarchy penalizes us when we do! When we’re strong, proud, decisive and crystal clear in our judgement we’re labeled as bitchy instead of competent. But Crina and Kirsten want to change this for you and all women!


New Flash!!  It is a myth that men are more confident than women.  In fact, studies show that women are in fact as confident as men, but we are judged, criticized and punished for owning our confidence.  In this episode of Crina and Kirsten Get to Work, our curious couple considers confidence, what it is, who exhibits it and why it’s time to own it, sister!

Psychology Dictionary Online defines self-confidence as an individual’s trust in her own abilities, capacities, and judgments, or belief that she can successfully face day to day challenges and demands.

Crina and Kirsten talk about their own experience with confidence. Kirsten trusts her judgement about what she does and does not know.  She is confident in her ability to learn and become competent in something. Kirsten attributes this to lots of experience, failure and recovery.

Crina discusses a friend of hers who is confident, but does not feel comfortable expressing her confidence – and leans towards wanting to be liked.  Her friend is getting ready to start a new job and when asked why she wants to do it, it is because the position pays better, and other people think she will be good.   When Crina went deeper with her friend, she discovered that her friend was confident in her ability to do the job, was excited about it, but did not know how to express these things.    

Our hosts consider what is confidence in a woman?

Character traits:

  • Doesn’t apologize for “being”
  • Owns her awesomeness
  • Willing to be vulnerable or not know something
  • Doesn’t seem to have anything to prove
  • Self-assured
  • Typically, ambitious because she knows what she wants
  • Willing to take risks
  • Generally positive

Behavior traits:

  • Speaks up in meetings 
  • Takes up space physically 
  • Projects her own voice
  • Is direct and clear in her communication

We read these traits as indicators of confidence, and colleagues often infer a lack of confidence when they are absent. Because many of these “executive” behaviors show up more in men, we perceive a “confidence gap.” 

There are things we can do about this, such as speaking well to yourself, taking care of yourself, taking risks, not apologizing, finding ways to get feedback.  And of course, we can help others with this, we can lift other women up, be a mentor, encourage other women, and normalize expressions of confidence.

And why do we want confidence – because it feels good. It is key to getting what you want, particularly in the workplace.  Individuals with confidence experience greater enjoyment in life, less fear and anxiety, more energy and motivation and better interactions with others. 

 We hope you enjoy these articles:

The Truth About Women and Self-Esteem

What is Self-Confidence? + 9 Ways to Increase It [2019 Update]

Is the Confidence Gap Between Men and Women a Myth?

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